Ian Schrager

Is it ever too late to start? Never too late to start. Never too late. I mean, funny you ask that because that's central to who I am. It's never too late to do something, and, uh, that willingness, I think, uh, completely defines who I am and what I want in life. There isn't anything that I wouldn't try, provided I think it makes sense. There's a, a prospect of success. I am not an artist. I'm a businessman. Everything I do has to make sense. [upbeat music] Welcome to Office Of, a clubhouse for sharp takes on confidence, drive, and being a solid man. This is a place for unfiltered stories, questions get answered and new ones get asked with some of today's most fascinating guys.

This is your space, your story, your rules. Come on in. The door is open. Today on Office Of, we have the incomparable and endlessly studied Ian Schrager as he steps into the chair. At seventy-nine years old, this true New Yorker is still setting the pace. He's the man behind Studio Fifty-Four, and he's helped define nightlife, culture, and cool, then really went on to reinvent hospitality altogether. He's the visionary force behind some of the most influential hotels of the last four decades. That's Morgan's Hotel, the Royalton Hotel, the Delano Hotel, the Edition Hotels, and now Public Hotels. Each one, a different cultural moment, not just a place to stay. Ian doesn't chase relevance. He creates environments where culture happens.

And as he gears up to open Public in West Hollywood, this conversation is about instinct, longevity, reinvention, and trusting your taste louder than the noise. And yes, the guy with the best voice in the room has arrived. Welcome to the Office Of Ian Schrager. You have been defining what culture looks like for nearly fifty years now, right? First, of course, was Studio Fifty-Four, and then the boutique hotel revolution. But before we sort of get into all of that, what was your very, very first job? The first jobs were menial, I suppose. I was a Pinkerton guard at Aqueduct Racetrack for a summer while I was going to school. Uh, I worked construction projects, hard labor, kind of I supposed to prove to my family that I wasn't a spoiled brat.

That was my first job, actually, construction. Looking back, did you have a favorite one? I liked the one when I was working in the stock market for a stockbroker. I enjoyed that. [laughs] Why? I don't know. It was just, uh... It seemed to me I was right in the middle of the kitchen, uh, in the sense that, uh, the, the pulse, what was going on, making money, investing in stocks, seeing what was going on with the economy, the impact it had on the stocks. It just made me feel that I was right in the thick of everything going on. You're a born and, and bred New Yorker. What did New York in those early days teach you sort of about people? Well, it was great being, uh, born in New York. I think when I was born, everybody thought New York City was the center of the universe. That, uh, everything got started, got defined, industry, finance, culture, fashion, entertainment, everything was here.

Matter of fact, uh, when I was in a nightclub, we would laugh when anybody tried to do a nightclub outside of New York. We thought it was in the sticks. And so I think, uh, New York gave me an edge, gave me exposure, and I attribute a lot of what's happened in my career to being raised... I have all the credentials. I was born in the Bronx and raised in Brooklyn rather than the suburbs. And, uh, you know, I think I attribute a lot of my fortunate, you know, success growing out of that and, and growing up hungry and ambitious and always trying to do better than my parents did. Were you always hustling? Were you always sort of a go-getter? Always. Where does that stem from? I'm not sure. I, I think it's that desire to do better from the generation that I was born. There was this, uh, thought that you wanted your kids to do better than you did.

Hmm. It was just a generational thing. I don't think we have that now, by the way. I think it's changed, but I feel very lucky that I perhaps was the last generation that that thought was, uh, you know, very much part of what, uh, my raising and bringing up was. So was there always that drive to better yourself- Always ...or make something for yourself? Always that drive. You know, a lot of people might attribute that drive to not being sure you have what it takes to be successful, and, uh, maybe that's what drives you. Maybe that's what drives me. I can't say for sure. But I always had it in whatever I was doing, whether it was school, whether it was sports, whether it was playing in a schoolyard, whether it's work. I always had that drive, uh, to, to excel, always. Were you a competitive guy?

Competitive is an understatement. Uh, very, very, very competitive. Sometimes even when walking on the street, I can't let somebody get ahead of me. Just very competitive. [laughs] It's in your nature, I suppose. [laughs] Obviously, we all know that you were behind Studio Fifty-Four, and it became a cultural phenomenon. Everybody's heard all the stories, and it's discussed at length. But I guess my question for you about Studio Fifty-Four is, when you look back on it, what did that environment teach you about human connection? You know, it was a very, very learning experience for me. It's, uh, kind of difficult to, uh, say, "Well, I learned a real lot from being in the nightclub business." In reality, what it was, you, you're in a business that has no discernible product.

Hmm. Uh, there's nothing you do, nothing you have that's, uh, distinguishable from what everybody else has. You have the same liquor. You have the same music. You have the same desire to, to meet people. All that distinguishes your nightclub From everybody else's nightclub is the kind of magic that you create, that kind of, we don't know what it is, you can't define it, you can't write a book how you accomplish it, but we all know it when we see it, that electricity in the air, that excitement. And, uh, that was always the goal with the nightclub because we didn't have anything different than anybody else had. So d-d-- how we distinguished ourself was really providing this kind of innate area of excitement, a combustible energy that happened when people kinda get together.

We also learned it was very important to have the diversity of people. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, it, it's so funny with the door policy and everyone's impression that it was a very elitist situation. It really wasn't. It-- because it didn't have anything to do with money or station in life. We were just trying to get a great mix of people, that diversity of people from all different walks of life. There's nothing more boring than being in a room full of rich people. So, you know, the diversity of people from all different walks of life, from, from all different religions, all different nationalities, all different colors, when you put that together, something emerges, a one plus one makes three situation that puts an electricity in the air, and I learned that in a nightclub.

Did you view the nightclub as hospitality? Yes. It is hospitality. Y-your goal is to take care of people in the same way my goal now in the hotel business is to take care of people, in the same way it is in the restaurant business or... So it is hospitality. It's just that, uh, it happens during a different time during the day. You're working when everybody else is off. You know, you're sleeping, uh, when, when everybody else is up. You're kinda living your life in reverse. It's a tough business, by the way, that usually consumes the impresarios that are involved in it because you don't have a product. It's what'd you do for me today? What did you do to make this space exciting and attractive today, tonight? And you gotta start all over again the next day. Usually, the people that are involved in that, you don't read or hear about them afterward because it does consume the people that do it.

I think w-- I'm one of the only ones, if not the only one, there may be one or two others that have been able to go on to the next step, because it does consume. It's like a Frankenstein monster. It consumes and destroys its creator. My ambition and my desire to, uh, succeed helped me get through that to get on to the next level. You have spent your professional career bringing people together, in a club, on a dance floor, or now sort of in a, a hotel lobby. And we'll talk about the hotels in a little bit, but what is it about the hotel environment that excites you the most? You know, first of all, it was an industry that was devoid of new and original ideas. Right. It grew up in the mass market era of this country when uniformity, everything being the same, everything that you use to design your hotel is available on the shelf, and that was considered a virtue.

Being a commodity and responding to a certain need to have a hotel bed was what the rule of the business was. Then you come along, and you say, "Well, wait a minute." You know, now it's completely different. People just don't want that generic commodity anymore. They want something different. They want an elevated experience, and nobody was doing that. And that was an opportunity for us. It was the same kind of thing we did in the nightclub business. You know, we were part of that, I was part of that baby boom generation. There was this bulge in the population. A lot of, uh, people in their late teens and early twenties all of a sudden descended upon New York. They wanted to go out. They wanted to meet people. So what did we do? We did a nightclub. And, uh, now the same thing as I look at another industry that needs reinvention.

The opportunity is there's nothing, you know, uniformity and, and, and, and the sameness as a virtue. Well, wait, that's not what people want now. They want a unique experience. They wanna be stimulated. They wanna get that same feeling of excitement when they go into a nightclub and you realize there's an electricity in the air. So we brought that into the hotel world. You've mentioned before that a good hotel is essentially about making you feel great, and without mentioning Public, when is the last time that you walked into a space that sort of made you feel this way, and what was it? Well, it's, uh, difficult not to mention my own project [chuckles]. I think there's a whole bunch of new restaurants with new ideas that are being, uh, done now.

I was just, I ate in a restaurant yesterday, but, uh, it, it was a new idea. You know, it didn't have waiters. It was kind of self-serve. Decor was chic and inventive. The menu and the way you got the food and the way it was, uh, you, you sat down and ate at it, and it just felt I was in a kinda new place. That feeling of newness, that feeling of a new idea or new concept, provided it's not too new, and provided it's not challenging or make you feel uncomfortable, is when you can hit that sweet spot, then you have a real hit on your hands. So, uh, yesterday when I went to this, uh, restaurant, I felt I was in a new place. That sweet spot's really hard to hit, though. Do you have a feeling when you hit that sweet spot? Like, what does that actually feel like for you? There's an instinct- Yeah ...

involved. It's not something... I can't even explain it. I can't even tell you how you get there. I couldn't write a book. I couldn't pass it on to, uh, another generation or even my children. But it's, it-- you, you know it when you experience it and you feel it. In the same way, you know it when you see somebody attractive. You just know it. There's no logic involved. It's an ethereal, visceral response. Something happens in your body and your brain. I can't tell you how to get there. I just know- When I've arrived that it's something special. I wouldn't open up a new, uh, place or facility until I felt that, and I'm not never sure, you know, when that is. I can finish construction on a place, but it doesn't feel right yet.

Everything was done off the plan, but it just doesn't feel right yet. So I continue playing around, adding this, adding that. It's a little bit like making a stew or a salad, a little pinch of this, a little pinch of that, and then when it happens, you know it. Do you drive yourself crazy doing that, though? Well, I'm obsessed by it. [laughs] Because, because there's no formula for success. When you try and do things that people haven't done before or ha- they haven't seen before, there's no way of knowing. I don't believe in, uh, market research or surveys or, or focus groups. Uh, you just, uh... You know, it's something that you have to feel out. It's something that you have to be prepared to make mistakes and even miss the mark, which thank God I haven't. Yet. Were you or are you afraid of failure?

Yes, I think when you innovate, you have to accept the possibility of failure. If you don't have the possibility of failure, you are not, by definition, innovating. You have to have that prospect available. You have to do every single thing possible, not leave one stone unturned, to make sure you reduce the possibility of, uh, of failure. Am I, am I striving more towards the success or more towards avoiding failure? I, I think all innovators are afraid of failure. That's what drives them. It has to be something because it's certainly not the money. Right. Can't get the drive, can't get what I need to do for the money. It has to be some- for something else. What still drives you today?

Same thing that drove me before, the pursuit of excellence, the pursuit of blowing people away, the pursuit of someone walking into a space with their eyes get wide, they smile, they look around. I can tell, uh, instantly they feel they're in some place special, and, uh, it's, uh, it's an incredibly gratifying, uh, experience to know, you know, you, you, you've accomplished it. Until that happens, you don't know. You could have a feeling, "Oh, this is gonna be special," but you don't know until the people come in. You know, the people are the ones that tell you if what you've done has been successful and stirs or stimulates their imagination, and there's nothing better than that. It's like if you throw a party at home and everyone comes, and you throw a great party, you feel great.

Well, you know, you've done something. People respond to it. It's... You just feel great about it. When you opened the doors to The Public in the Lower East Side of New York City, the first time that it opened, did you feel that sense of excitement? Yes. You did. You knew you were onto something unique. Soon as the people come in, it's the people. You can tell when they come in and their eyes get wide, and they wanna touch this and feel this, and they're looking around, and they're smiling, and they're seeing something new. You can tell. That's the payoff for me. Public essentially, well, in New York City at least, sort of changed the conversation about what luxury, luxury meant. Can you talk to me a little bit about that and in terms of a luxury property or a boutique hotel property? Because it, it changed the conversation, and it changed the game.

It's such an important idea, probably the most important idea I've ever had. The idea that luxury should be experienced and enjoyed only by rich people is an outdated, antiquated idea. So boring. Yes. As you know, the point is, is that, uh, there are a lot more people have access to a little bit more capital. There's nothing that says that luxury should just be for a bunch of rich people who can afford it. There should be no connection between what something costs and whether or not it's luxury or not. That part of the old definition when luxury was really based upon scarcity- Mm-hmm ... it was based upon a small group of people. That's, you know, like an outdated idea. Why can't you do something that's reasonably priced, even cheap, and is accessible to everyone, but it's not dumbed down to make it cheap?

It's just as inspiring and soaring as a very expensive property, but you've been creative. You use maybe less expensive finishes. You got rid of some of the, uh, fancy things that people really don't even care about anymore, and you do something that is inexpensive. There's just something, just a great idea about that. It's almost a democratic principle, and that's why I consider Public my most important idea, to do something that works with very, very, very rich people and older people but also works for people the same way that don't have that much money and may even be younger. How about that? This is for everybody. It's just a, just a, just a very important social idea. Were you somewhat nervous to open Public in New York as a new concept in the city in which you're born and raised, in the city in which people know you for what you've done?

This was an innovative, almost price-effective format to the hotel concept. Well, it was in a v- very untested, unproven area. Yeah. [laughs] For sure. It was in the Lower East Side- Yeah ... which is, uh, didn't have any other hotels. Mm-mm. It's in a, a neighborhood that might have 100 hotel rooms to a hotel, and we have 360 rooms. It was a new idea. The rooms were very small. We were trying to create cabins on a ship, and it was a kind of new idea where you have over $150 million at stake. So it was, uh, something of first impression, but I had an overriding belief in the people that if you give them a good product and you make them feel good and, uh, it's something special and unique, that people will come.

It really is build it and people will come. Uh, you know, so I, I was... It was very, uh, rewarding for me, the idea of, uh, doing Public, keeping in mind there was no other hotel in that area. This is not a hotel area. And people said, "Well, you know, it, it, it's not in Midtown," you know, and, and I really thought to myself, "Wait a second. Uh, I have a new thinking about this. Uh, it's not in Midtown, that's true, but you're about 15 or 18 minutes from Midtown. You're also 10 or 15 minutes from Wall Street." So to my way of thinking, it was centrally located even though it wasn't in the conventional wisdom of being in Midtown. And that willingness to stake it all on what I believe is what any innovator does.

He sees things other people don't see. He believes in it even though there's not a precedent for it, uh, and he's got the nerve to risk failure to do it. And now in March, you're opening your second property in Los Angeles. Yes. Why LA? You know, I think that, um, the idea for Public, when I did, uh, the original boutique hotels, which we really did create and which Steve, uh, gave birth to the name boutique, he was the one that came up with that because we were in, uh, you know, New York, the fashion capital, and we expressed things in terms of fashion. Yes. All the other hotels were department stores. We were a boutique. [laughs] Uh, and, um, I just, I just felt that, uh, it was just a great idea, and it was something that traveled.

So when I did my first lifestyle hotels, they were really somewhat inspired by luxury hotels and a little beneath luxury hotels. And so for an idea like thatMaybe you could have seventy-five to a hundred and twenty-five hotels a-around the country because there aren't many cities that may be able to support it from a business point of view. Public is in a different market. Uh, Public is in a very big market. Public is in the market, uh, let's say Courtyard by Marriott is in. There are a thousand Courtyards to the same market that Hilton Garden Inn is in, and there are seven or eight hundred of those. And that is really big marketplace where millions and millions of people are involved, and we thought, "Wait a minute, you don't have to dumb something down, and you don't have to do something that's really a commodity.

Here's the bed to sleep in. You could do something special. You could do something unique." And that was the idea of, uh, Public. And that's why I say it's the most important idea I've ever had because it-it's doing something great and doing something original and something of great quality and imagination and making it available to everybody and anybody that wants it, not just a small group of the population. Uh, that, that to me is a very big idea. And what about the LA community? You know, I think, uh, when you think about, uh, my products and you think about some of the big cities where you know that it will do well because it's a city, it's culturally advanced, so on and so forth, you know, when I did-- when I first did my hotels, everybody thought only people who wore black and lived in SoHo came to them.

They didn't realize you can't have a business with that. You have to really attract everybody. I, I think that, you know, going and doing something that was, uh, so unique but accessible to everyone. And so when you think about these great cities around this country, the big cities, New York, LA, Miami, and there are of course many, many, many, many others, I feel most comfortable because my customers I know are already there. Now, with Public, I'm going into areas that might not seem as so self-evident, but that I believe the people will also understand it and, uh, make a success out of it. So it's just a different mindset. You, you go out to those areas where they're already... the customers are already there. Then you go to areas where maybe you have to, uh, bring in something a little new.

Maybe they're not, uh, used to it, but it's something that they will get and understand. Do you ever turn off, though? How do you turn off? I don't. I don't turn off. I'm, uh, I'm on. Uh, and I don't know any half speed. I think there's no need for me to turn off because I love what I do. I do it because I love it. It's a little bit like some of the great entertainers that we know. When they get on the stage and they're performing, they're so flamboyant. You can't imagine a person like Michael Jackson being painfully shy when he gives an interview. And there are a lot of other entertainers like that. Something happens to them when they're performing. They come out, they blossom, they become another person, another entity. I go through the same thing, you know, when I do, you know, what I do.

I-- 'cause I am shy. I'm not a people person. Uh, when I'm in a... I go to a cocktail party, I could grab the hand of my wife and just stay in the corner, uh, which is one of the reasons I was partners with Steve because he is or was very outgoing. So it was really the perfect partnership. You know, now, without somebody like Steve, I have to rely one hundred percent on the strength of the product. It's not somebody, some host, or somebody greeting or, or some personality. You know, it-- the strength of the product, the product itself has to do all the work and all the heavy lifting, not the personality that owns the product. So it's a kinda different mindset. Do you think that's a big misconception about you? I mean, I'm meeting you now, and we're chatting, and you obviously have a lot to say, and I know your professional history, but I wouldn't expect you to be a shy, introverted individual.

Don't tell anybody because they have my reputation, but I am. I've always been shy. But I think you'll see that with a lot of entertainers, big, big entertainers, that they're very shy in their personal life for some reason, and when they entertain, it's a way for them to express themselves, to get it out there. Well, that's the same thing with me. These hotels are a way for me to express myself. My projects are a way for me to express myself, to be flamboyant, uh, to, you know, to be, uh, inventive, to break all the rules. Like I said, in, in my personal life, if I were, um, you know, I'm in a party, I grab the hand of my wife, and I could sit in a corner. Making small talk is hard for me. Talking about my business, talking about what I do, I could talk in front of ten million people, no problem. But, uh, making small talk at a cocktail party is a real effort for me.

That's super interesting to me. When no one's around, it's just your wife and your family, and you're not talking about business, who are you? I'm the happiest then, I have to say. It could be the stage of life I'm in. I don't know. I'm happiest when I'm at home with my wife and family. I just find it in... You know, surrounded by love and, you know, easiness and comfort. Uh, you know, would I have felt like that ten years ago or fifteen years ago? I don't know, but I know I feel like that now. Hey, guys. Quick pause before we keep going. This episode is brought to you by Rael. I live a pretty active life. I train, I go to the gym, I sweat, and I'm moving all day around New York City. And if I'm being completely honest, I shower two, maybe three times a day. Please hold the feedback. I don't have the attention span or the patience for anything really complicated.

For me, I find what works, and I stick with it. Rael's Supreme Sport Cleansing Body Wash actually feels different. It's thick, it's rich, it's premium, and it has this clean, cooling mint that hits after a workout without being overpowering. It cleans really hard but never leaves your skin feeling dry or stripped. For me, it feels like a reset, more like a recovery ritual than just another shower, and it's easily one of the best-smelling things in my bathroom. Use code OFFICE15 for fifteen percent off. Rael, it's simple, effective, and no fluff. Now, back to our guest. I wanna go back to The Public in West Hollywood that's opening 'cause you've mentioned before that you're super competitive, and you've also mentioned that you obsess over the details. What are some of the details of this property that you're very excited about?

Well, you know, there's, there's a couple of things. Number one, I think the, uh, rooms are incredibly sophisticated and refined. Every project I do, the latest project I do I think is my best project until I start working on the next one. You know, after a while, you get to a point where you're confident in your decisions. You don't agonize over every single detail, which I do. You get to the point when you realize there's only a certain universe of options. You pick the options. It comes easier. It comes faster. And so, you know, giving birth is a lot easier than the first-time mother for me now. And so I think the rooms are incredibly refined and sophisticated, and they feel very LA. What does that mean? [laughs] I knew you were gonna ask that.

You know, that doesn't mean that it's full of clichés, and there's a camera or a palm tree or any of those kind of things in the room. It just in a subliminal way feels very LA, which is a little bit... I go back to the golden age of LA when everything was kind of low-key. The pace was not so fast. It was enjoyable. You were living in the sun. It's one of the only places in the world where you're an hour from the desert, an hour from the ocean, and an hour from skiing in the mountains, so it's a kinda unique setting. So capturing that, it's like if I did a hotel in New York, it doesn't mean I'm gonna have Statue of Liberties in the room. It, you know, I want it to feel New York but without a cliché. The rooms feel very LA in the selection of finishes, materials, and colors, so I'm quite, quite pleased with that.

We seem to be getting more and more refined as we go through this process. But because LA is a place that has, uh, good weather, and, uh, outdoor living is very much a part of being there and, and the culture, so we decided to create our own private park on the roof. Cool. I mean, and when I say private park, I mean the real deal, you know. I mean, like, uh, with, uh, pickleball courts and softball fields and basketball courts and campfire sites, rolling hills, and, you know, lots of, uh, lots of landscaping. So it's the only private park in West Hollywood. It may be the only private park in Southern California where you actually, you know, go into a hotel and, uh, when you wanna get a feeling and experience what it is to be on the outside and the kind of outdoor living that the people in LA do, all you have to do is go upstairs to the roof.

I used to say, "If you wanna know what goes on with the restaurants and the bars, go downstairs to the lobby." Now I say, "That too," but now I say, "You can addition go up to the roof." And, uh, that's a new idea. It's about eighteen thousand square feet. It, it's a little bit or close to three-quarters of an acre with three hundred and sixty degree views. Uh, so you're up there, and you're seeing th-that beautiful LA skyline. You're seeing the hills of, uh, West Hollywood. You're seeing downtown and downtown LA. I mean, it's just gonna be a very, very special place that will distinguish it from every other hotel out there. I, I don't know any hotel that boasts a private park on the roof. Y-where you're playing, uh, pickleball, uh, on the roof. Uh, there's a putting green.

There's a running track where you can go up there and exercise. So you'll be driving by Sunset Boulevard, and you'll look up, and you'll be seeing people run around the roof like they're at a jogging track. I think that gives another dimension, you know, to the hotel, again offering something that nobody else could possibly offer. I'm constantly in the quest of doing something that can't be copied. You know, uh, I'm not one of those that gets flattered when something we do gets copied. I feel, "Wait a minute. That's my children. You can't do that." But I've gotten used to it. But this particular thing is not gonna be capable of being, uh, copied by the other people, which is what they do. The other hotels that they come and look and see what we're doing, and then they go.

They... Like a candy store, they take what they want, and they use it. So this is something that I think could be copy-proof, which of course is mecca to somebody in my, uh, business. I can't wait to check it out when it's open. You've been shaping nightlife for a very, very, very long time. When's the last time you actually went to a nightclub? Oh, not for a very, very, very long time. I mean, when I was involved in the nightclub business, Steve enjoyed every minute of it. Uh, maybe he enjoyed it more than anybody. Not me. It was a business to me. You know, I wanted to make sure that the experience was created, and at Studio it used to happen, is I used to leave around one or two in the morning after we'd, we'd turned the corner. We got everybody in there. Everybody was, you know, having a good time.

The party was a success, and then I left. I wouldn't be the one that, "Okay, the party's great. I'm gonna be a part of it." No. My payoff was watching the other people whooping it up and having a great time, and, you know, nobody cares anything about anybody else. Celebrities talking with non-celebrities, rich people dealing with non-rich people, old and young, and so on and so forth. It's just this combustible energy. When you reach a certain point when the night is made, it is what it is, I would go home. And, um, Steve would, you know, party with everybody else that was there, which, you know, he loved that, and he enjoyed that and... but it wasn't something that, uh, I naturally enjoyed. What's the biggest lesson that you learned from Steve? You know, I think, uh, he's the one that pushed me To leave what I was doing to be a principal.

We are very much alike, even though he was an extrovert and I was an introvert, you know, but he wasn't afraid of failure, and he wasn't afraid of trying something new. I think I actually witnessed that with him, and it was empowering to me. I love it. Is there a profession that you wish you did that you haven't done yet? There's not a profession that I wish I would do when I rethink my life and what's been done. I think if I was in something else other than what I, I am doing, it might be an architect or a designer or something like that. But again, when I was working, it was Steve that kept saying to me, "Why would you wanna be an advisor to people? Why wouldn't you wanna be the principal? Why wouldn't you wanna be doing this for your own account rather than advising people?"

And that was the impetus that made me, uh, "Okay, I'm gonna go for it, and, uh, I'm gonna go out and try and go, go into business, you know, on my own." We went into the nightclub business because at the time, in the era, and because there was no barriers to entry, you didn't have to have a lot of money. It was a little bit like, "Let's have a party. Let's roll up the rug and have a party while our parents were away." That was like our first nightclub. And then it's just a question of responding and taking the opportunities and traveling on the road that appear when you get out there and you start doing stuff. There's no plan. You just respond to an opportunity. And that was, um, my life. And that's why I say to my children, "Just get out there and get started."

Things happen. You do that. You can't anticipate it. Just get out there and get started. You'll see. Things will come your way. You'll figure out what you wanna do and who you wanna be once you get started. Is it ever too late to start? Never too late to start. Never too late. I mean, funny you ask that because that's central to who I am. It's never too late to do something, and, uh, that willingness, I think, uh, completely defines who I am and what I want in life. There isn't anything that I wouldn't try, provided I think it makes sense. There's a, a prospect of success. I am not an artist. I'm a businessman. Everything I do has to make sense. It has to make money. People don't realize that, uh, because if you do something innovative and it doesn't make any money, then you're not gonna have the opportunity to do it again.

Uh, so you have to have it. So the making money is part of the success. If it doesn't make money, it deprives me of the enjoyment of it. What do you think is the biggest misconception about you? That I'm a party guy out there, uh, partying and enjoying the facilities. You've seen this. You go to restaurants, and a lot of times the owner is there in some very decorative outfit. He likes to see people, and he likes to go over and pay homage to the people who are eating and chitchat and so on and so forth. That's not me. I rely strictly on creating the product. It's not the social aspect of it. I think a lot of people go into the nightclub business because of the social aspect of it. That's not what interested me.

It was the, uh, it was the absolute no rules, free form, open-ended opportunity to do anything that makes sense that you think people will like, and that was attractive to me. I wasn't hemmed in by have to do something a certain way. I was able to do anything. It's still attractive to me. Do you have any regrets? I don't really regret anything, but what bothers me a little bit now that I go out there and see that the future of the hotel business is in lifestyle hotels, and, uh, seventy-five percent of the new hotel development are lifestyle hotels. They're not about design, but when it's misconstrued by the other people, they think it's really design-oriented.

I just feel that the ideas that we came up with, even though I've done over forty hotels, I just feel that the footprint of what I did, it is not commensurate with the contribution of ideas I contributed. To me, I never really wanted to be the biggest. I just really wanted to be the best, but now I wanna be the biggest and the best because it's something I haven't done before. I'd like to have the anti-chain. I'd like to have a lot of hotels. They're all individualized. They all make sense. They all make money. They're all inspired. And to prove that you can do a big company and not give up on the integrity of what the idea is all about.

And that's a new mountain for me to climb. I'm very interested and focused on now. What do you hate being asked in interviews? It's an opportunity to me to get my ideas out there. You know, I think it's up to a good interviewer to ask whatever he thinks his customers, his audience are gonna be interested in. There really-- You know, maybe because I'm at it so long, there really isn't anything that, uh, could make me recoil. Uh, no. No, you're a smart person. You wanna do a good interview. You wanna provide your audience with something provocative and interesting. I'm game for anything, you know. And I, I've always been like this. I wonder why. I mean, obviously, I was never at Studio 54, but I've read about it. I've seen the documentary. I've seen the movies. Why do you think it's the pinnacle that everybody in that realm strives to be like?

Because there was an absolute freedom when you were there. Did anything go? Anything goes. As long as you didn't hurt anybody, as long as you didn't break the law. Of course, obviously, I think there were drugs that were being used there, but there were no more drugs being used there than went under Yankee Stadium. There was a freedom. You could do anything you want as long as you didn't hurt anybody. Now, it didn't hurt that this was pre-AIDS. You know, so when you did something at night, there's nothing you could do that you couldn't get up the next morning and walk away from. It was also the culmination of the kind of free sex that was brewing since the '60s. There was sex everywhere.

There was abandonment everywhere. Gay, whether you were straight, it didn't really matter. Everybody was very accepting. There was no judgmental, uh, kind of behavior. So when you got there, you felt comfortable and free, and there wasn't anything that you couldn't do that would be criticized or people would point at you. And I, and I think that freedom is something we all seek and don't often find, uh, unless it's in the privacy of your own home, maybe when you're alone in your own room. But that I think is why Studio was so successful, and I think that Steve deserves so much credit for that because he is such... was such a people person, and he enjoyed people so much that he enhanced this idea of being comfortable and being able to do whatever it is you want at any time.

And Steve probably had more fun than anybody there. Uh, and I, I, I think that was the reason that, uh, peop-People, uh, used to go there every night because it, it was an outlet. You know, I remember we had a very, very, very big snowstorm, uh, during the time that Studio was open. Might've been two or three feet. The city was completely shut down. But Studio, we opened, and it was busy, and not busy like it was if it weren't snowing, but people came because, you know, you get your fix of, uh, this abandonment, forgetting who you are, forgetting your problems and, and having fun and feeling safe and feeling protected about it. I, I think, uh, you know, we all strive for that. People got that at Studio.

Was there ever a recognizable face who walked in the door that you were like, "Oh, I've made it," or, "I'm starstruck," or, "We're onto something here"? Well, starstruck, I mean, I have to tell you, well, before we opened up or we were about to open up, we had a party that, uh, Bianca Jagger, uh, threw for Mick Jagger. Uh, it was Mick's birthday party, and I have to tell you, I saw more celebrities. It wasn't crowded. The... It was on a dark night when we were ordinarily closed, and there were, there were more celebrities than I'd ever seen in my whole entire life sitting there relaxing, acting like normal people, not on edge. Nobody was walking around with a camera trying to take photographs. So they... I was witnessing these celebrities that I grew up with.

I grew up listening to the Rolling Stones and, and, and so here's Mick sitting over there relaxing, you know, drinking. And so what happened? At 1:00 or 1:30 when the party was at its peak, I went home with a girl. You know, where Steve stayed there and, uh, enjoyed it and hung out with them and... It was just not something I was interested in. Who was in that room? Do you remember the celebrities? Now I'm just thinking of pictures that I've seen. There's, uh, Russ Nakov, Jacqueline Bisset, who was a big movie star then. Ahmed Hurtigan, Mick Jagger, and, and, and, uh, one or two of the other Stones. Documented 'cause there's pictures of it, but, uh, it was just the most beautiful people. I remember getting a phone call from Joe Uhler, who happened to be Halston's very big fashion designer, graphic artist.

It was on a Monday, and he's the one that asked if we would open up. We were dark that night and have a special party, so of course we said yes. Those people having a party at Studio was a little bit like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. We have arrived. I mean, these are the people, these are the tastemakers. It was just an unbelievable thrill, and it was an unbelievable thrill for me even though I went home at 1:00, 1:30. After the night turned a corner and I knew it was, it was good. You know, it was nothing that I had to, I had to watch. What's the craziest bribe that somebody did to get in? I never knew that, by the way, because believe it or not, there was an integrity to that process. It seemed arbitrary. It was even mean at times, I suppose. You mean to the admission process- Yes ... getting in? I mean, it's very difficult to make a selection on a person in 10 seconds and based upon very superficial criteria perhaps.

You know, whether you see somebody with a cool haircut or whether you see someone that you think is gonna be accretive to the party, gonna add to the party. You didn't wanna have somebody come in that, uh, was gonna make, uh, women who were there by themselves feel uncomfortable, where they were gonna get hit upon or whatever. So there was a rhyme and reason for making this selection. But because it was a kind of spontaneous thing, it was vulnerable to making errors, and it was vulnerable to saying things that hurt people's feelings. I remember Steve sometime would let the husband in but not the wife, or maybe let the wife in and not the husband. But again, there was an integrity to it. You know, the fact is, uh, that whoever did the door, most of the time it was Steve, the crowd would be different because everyone's exercising their own judgments about what's cool and what's not cool.

And I think, uh, Steve, being a people person, you know, had an innate sense of who would be additive to the party. Was there, like, an unspoken rule, like anybody wearing a black... Like, we don't let people who are wearing black trousers in. That's boring. That's not part of the vibe. Well, polyester shirts at that time didn't help you, I can tell you that. But you're looking to keep out people that are gonna be dead weight to the party rather than contributing to it. Like, the worst thing would've been if you let somebody in and they're gonna be finger-pointing and gawking at all the celebrities that are there because that makes the celebrities feel uncomfortable. You know, nobody cared that there were celebrities all over the place. Nobody cared, and the celebrities didn't care that there were regular people that were there. That was what was so special about it, and that was because of the environment and also because of Steve.

What do you wanna be remembered as? Like, what do you want your legacy to be? You know, that I did really great projects and invented a genre that wasn't there before, whether it was in, uh, the nightclub business and now it's in the hotel business. You know, that I had an impact and I changed things. That when people start talking and thinking about, well, let's just talk about what happened in New York City and so on and so forth, you know, that, uh, we get mentioned as being some of those people that had an impact, that did things, that changed things. Because I do think that the nightclub we did changed things, and I think that the hotels that we did changed an entire industry, and, uh, that's the part I enjoy the most. How do you take feedback? 'Cause I imagine if people are sitting in a room with you, people arguably must say that you created the greatest nightclub in the world, and now you're a veteran in the hotel and hospitality space.

I imagine they sort of take your word and your opinion as the pinnacle, as the top. Do people have a hard time disagreeing with you just because of who you are and what you've done? I hope not. I don't hold myself out as an expert. You know, I'm really just like you, just like everybody else. I'm making a decision. I'm taking a chance. I'm rolling the dice. Thank God I've been, uh, right, but every time I roll them, I could be wrong. I have very specific views, but I'm always open. You know, there are a lot smarter people out there than I am, and maybe they haven't had the same opportunities I've had. But, uh, I'm very open to hear what people say. I have an unshakable faith in the people. They know what's right and wrong, and I have an unshakable belief in that.

There is this belief that the people know the answer. You wanna know what's going on, ask the people. They'll tell you. They'll tell you what's happening, and, uh, I have a, an unshakable faith in that. [upbeat music]